Kimball Quotes from the Miracles of Forgiveness

Kimball Quotes - Miracles of Forgiveness

"For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God...."  Alma 34:32    Page 1

"...God created man to live in mortality and endowed him with the potential to perpetuate the race, to subdue the earth, to perfect himself and to become as God, omniscient and omnipotent."  Page 2

"But will one receive eternal life on the basis of his good intentions?  Can one enter a country, receive a scholastic degree, and so on, on the strength of good intent unsupported by appropriate action?  Samuel Johnson remarked that 'hell is paved with good intentions.'  The Lord will not translate one's good hopes and desires and intentions into works.  Each of us must do that for himself."  Page 8

"For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors."  Alma 34:32

"This life is the time to repent. That is why I presume it will take a thousand years after the first resurrection until the last group will be prepared to come forth.  It will take them a thousand years to do what it would have taken but three-score and ten to accomplish in this life."  Melvin J. Ballard, "Three Degrees of Glory."  Page 11

"No Unclean Thing Can Enter"  Heading, page 19

"But to God who is perfection, cleanliness means moral and personal cleanliness.  Less than that is, in one degree or another, uncleanliness and hence cannot dwell with God."  Page 19

"Akin to many of the other sins is that of the covenant-breaker.  The person baptized promises to keep all the laws and commandments of God.  He has partaken of the sacrament and re-pledged his allegiance and his fidelity, promising and covenanting that he will keep all God's laws.  Numerous folks have gone to the temples and have re-covenanted that they would live all the commandments of God, keep their lives clean, devoted, worthy, and serviceable.  Yet many there are who forget their covenants and break the commandments, sometimes deliberately tempting the faithful away with them."  Page 57

"But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come."  Doctrine and Covenants 84:41  Page 117

"When a member of the Church is adjudged guilty of murder or what seems to approach the terrible crime, consideration should be given to excommunication, which in most cases is the penalty required."  Page 131

"By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins - behold, he will confess them and forsake them."  Doctrine & Covenants 58:43

"The saving power does not extend to him who merely wants to change his life.  True repentance prods on to action."  Page 163

"Nor is repentance complete when one merely tries to abandon sin.  To try with a weakness of attitude and effort is to assure failure in the face of Satan's strong counteracting efforts.  What is needed is resolute action."  Page 164

"To 'try' is weak. To 'do the best I can' is not strong.  We must always do better than we can."
Page 165

"One must have the opportunity of committing wrong in order to be really repentant... That is why we should not wait for the life beyond but should abandon evil habits and weaknesses while in the flesh on the earth."  Page 168

"Thus when a man has made up his mind to change his life, there must be no turning back."
Page 170

"Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven."
Doctrines & Covenants 1:32   Page 201

"I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;"  D&C 132:31   Page 201

"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation.  Along with all the other works necessary for man's exaltation in the kingdom of God this could rule out the need for repentance."  Page 206

"This progress toward eternal life is a matter of achieving perfection.  Living all the commandments guarantees total forgiveness of sins and assures one of exaltation through that perfection which comes by complying with the formula the Lord gave us.  In his Sermon on the Mount he made the command to all men: 'Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.'  (Matt. 5:48)  Being perfect means to triumph over sin.  This is a mandate from the Lord.  He is just and wise and kind.  He would never require anything from his children which was not for their benefit and which was not attainable..  Perfection therefore is an achievable goal."  Page 209

"Advancement to perfection can nevertheless be rapid if one resolutely strides toward the goal."
Page 210

"Numerous members of the Church will be disappointed.  All will fail of these blessings who fail to live worthy lives, even though the temple ordinances have been done for them."  Page 246

"While in this probation and in this life certainly mean the period of our mortal lives."  Page 248

"But they procrastinated the day of their preparation.  The same lamentable cry of 'Too late!' will apply to many of today's Church members who did not heed the warning but who proceeded- sometimes carelessly, sometimes defiantly - to bind themselves through mortality to those who could not or would not prepare for the blessings which were in reserve for them."
"The Lord's program is unchangeable.  His laws are immutable.  They will not be modified. Your opinion or mine does not alter the laws.  Many in the world, and even some in the Church, seem to think that eventually the Lord will be merciful and give them the unearned blessing.  But the Lord cannot be merciful at the expense of justice."  Page 249

"There must be works - many works - and an all-out, total surrender, with a great humility and 'a broken heart and a contrite spirit.'  It depends upon you whether or not you are forgiven, and when.  It could be weeks, it could be years, it could be centuries before that happy day when you have the positive assurance that the Lord has forgiven you.  That depends on your humility, your sincerity, your works, your attitudes."  Page 325

"It is that the former transgressor must have reached a 'point of no return' to sin wherein there is not merely a renunciation but also a deep abhorrence of the sin - where the sin becomes most distasteful to him and where the  desire or urge to sin is cleared out of his life."  Page 355

Brother V & Veggies and Ice Cream

If

Photo by Hermes Rivera on Unsplash

Then

                                                        Photo by Alex Shu on Unsplash
      

Can you think of three people that have denied themselves of ALL UNGODLINESS?  We are not talking of 90%, 95%  or even 99% of ungodliness.  All means 100% of ungodliness.  Are there three people that you can think of that qualify?  Do you know three people who love God with ALL their might, mind and strength?  Again, we are not talking of those who love God with 50%, 80% or even 98%  of their might, mind and strength.  The word ALL means 100%.  If you are thinking of those three people, you can put them into Moroni 10:32.  It includes an if-then statement.  Keith Walker from Evidence Ministries compares this to an if-then statement about dinner: "If you finish your vegetables, then you can have some dessert.")  With your three, 100%, people in mind, we can read from Moroni 10:32, "...if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you,..."   When do you get the grace?  You get it after denying yourself of all ungodliness and loving God with all your might, mind and strength.  So who gets the needed grace?  Only the three people you thought of get the grace.  You may not have been able to think of anyone.
      This is the verse that Brother V. used with his revelation about grace in sacrament meeting.  In his grace revelation he learned that we cannot meet God half way.  It is not 50 - 50.  We cannot be saved by the law.  It is all about grace.  This is why Jesus was so hard on the pharasees.  They were keeping the law and trusting in their righteous works.  It was not about the law.  Jesus was accused of hanging out with sinners, gluttons and drunkards.  Obviously, they were the ones that realized they needed God's grace and mercy.  It was easy for Brother V. to find New Testament examples of God's grace and mercy.  It was harder for him to find them in the Book of Mormon.  But if you water down this verse in Moroni and twist it some, you can apply it to everyone.

Free Grace

      

Mormons have a better example of grace.  It is baptism for the dead.  The dead man or woman cannot do much.  They cannot pay tithes, pray, attend church, love others, speak kind words or show empathy.  They cannot even repent.  They can do nothing since they are dead.  When someone is baptized for them, it is simply a gift.  It is not earned in any way.  The worker does it for free for the dead person.  This is an act of pure grace.
      Brother V. had another revelation that we are not under the curse.  Now we know that you only have to kill one person to be a murderer.  You only have to steal once to be a thief.  You only have to sin one time to be a sinner.  If God is going to look into the dark motives of our heart, we are all in trouble.  Galatians 3:13 says, "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, 'Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree.'"  When Jesus hung on the cross, he hung there in our place.  We should have died on the cross for our many sins.  Again the Book of Mormon does not offer this to everyone.  In Alma 34, it is only for those who repent.  In Alma 34:35, an individual can choose to procrastinate repentance and wind up in hell as their "final state" of existence.
      Grace and freedom from the curse were two fine revelations by Brother V. in sacrament meeting.

Sacrament with 2 Gospels

   

  

Yesterday's sacrament meeting had two different speakers representing two different gospels.  It was a husband and wife team with two different viewpoints.  The wife spoke first.  She emphasized a pre-mortal life where we were the spiritual offspring of God in heaven before we came to this earth.  She generously said that we are all children of God.  She said that God's divinity is in our DNA.  Through the many good deeds of the members present, God was being presented.  His light or divinity shines through us as we are kind and loving.  This self-saving gospel is found in 2 Nephi 24:12-16 where an angel tried to ascend and become "like" God.  "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! Art thou cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations!  For thou hast said in thy heart: I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High.  Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."   (This passage is also found in Isaiah 14:12-16.)
       In the Garden of Eden, Eve was also presented with this self-saving gospel.  The serpent told her that she could be like a goddess through gaining knowledge.  Genesis 3:3&4 says, "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."
      Psalm 82:6&7 says, "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."
      The second speaker, the husband, presented a gospel of grace.  He questioned why the Jesus was so hard on the Pharisees when they were the ones who were keeping the law.  This is true - Jesus was hard on them.  Jesus said to the Jews in John 8:44, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do...."  In Matthew 23:27-33, Jesus said "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.  Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.  Woe unto you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.  Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.  Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"    He seemed to be saying that many were getting off track with 2 Nephi 25:23: "...it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do."  He said there is no meeting God half way.  He said you cannot be saved through keeping the law.
      He also pointed out that Jesus was accused of hanging out with sinners too much.  He said it is about grace.  He said he was drawn to the New Testament Jesus and his emphasis on grace.  I agree with the speaker.  Jesus spent time teaching the woman at the well in John 4.  She had had 5 husbands and was with a man that was not her husband.  He did not tell her to get her life cleaned up and come back in 6 months to talk.  He talked and taught her about worship right then and there.  In  Luke 18:9-14, Jesus tells us a story about a law-keeping Pharisee and a publican.  "And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee and the other a publican.  The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.  I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.  And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.  I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."  What a powerful story of God's grace?!
      In Ephesians 2:8-9, the Apostle Paul wrote, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
      In regard to the first speaker, the book of Mormon does not say that we are all God's children.  It commands us to repent and become a child of God.  Mosiah 7:24-26 says, "For, said he, I have repented of my sins, and have been redeemed of the Lord; behold I am born of the Spirit.  And the Lord said unto me: Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters; And thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God."
      In the book of Galatians, the Apostle Paul refuted the Jews.  The Jews were pushing circumcision which represented the mosaic law.  In Galatians 1:8 Paul said, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."  
      May the Great God, the unchangeable being found in Moroni 8:18 draw us closer to Him through His Holy Spirit.  God's grace to all.

Grace vs. Works - Featuring Joe the Gentile

LDS/Christian

Beginning Dialog

Gentile Joe - Do you have to go to the celestial kingdom to become a god?

LDS- Yes

Gentile Joe - Do you have to be forgiven of your sins to go to the celestial kingdom?

LDS - Yes

Gentile Joe - Do you have to truly repent to be forgiven of your sins?

LDS - Yes

Gentile Joe - Does true repentance involve forsaking sin?

LDS - Yes

Gentile Joe - Have you forsaken all sin?
LDS - No, nobody has.
Gentile Joe - If you haven't forsaken all sin, then perhaps you have not truly repented.  If you have not truly repented, perhaps you are not forgiven of your sins.  And if you are not forgiven, perhaps you are not headed to the celestial heaven.

Desire

LDS - Well, first we must have the desire to change?

Gentile Joe - Spencer W. Kimball said "Desire is not sufficient".  "The saving power does not extend to him who merely wants to change his life.  True repentance prods one to action."  (Miracles of Forgiveness pg.163)

Trying to do our best

LDS - We always have to try and do the best we can.

Gentile Joe - Kimball said "Trying is not sufficient".  He used the example of a soldier with his army officer.  "And army officer called a soldier to him and ordered him to take a message to another officer.  The soldier saluted and said, 'I'll try, sir! I'll try!'  To this the officer responded: 'I don't want you to try, I want you to deliver this message.'  The soldier, somewhat embarrassed, now replied: 'I'll do the best I can, sir.'  At this the officer now disgusted, rejoined with some vigor: 'I don't want you to try and I don't want you to "do the best you can."  I want you to deliver this message.'  Now the young soldier, straightening to his full height, approached the matter magnificently as he thought, when he saluted again and said: 'I'll do it or die, sir.'  To this the now irate officer responded: 'I don't want you to die, and I don't want you merely to do the best you can, and I don't want you to try. Now, the request is a reasonable one; the message is important; the distance is not far; you are able-bodied; you can do what I have ordered. Now get out of here and accomplish your mission.' "  Kimball went on to say, "To 'try' is weak.  To 'do the best I can' is not strong. We must always do better than we can."  (Miracles of Forgiveness pg.164-165)

Former sins return

LDS - Nobody is perfect.  No one can completely stop sinning.

Gentile Joe - Spencer W. Kimball focused on D&C 82:7.  This verse says, "Unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord you God."  He describes it in this way, "To return to sin is most destructive to the morale of the individual and gives Satan another hand-hold on his victim.  Those who feel that they can sin and be forgiven and then return to sin and be forgiven again and again must straighten out their thinking.  Each previously forgiven sin is added to the new one and the whole gets to be a heavy load."

      Here is my old, incorrect view of D&C 82:7:  If I were to repent of lying and stopped lying for 15 years, I would be doing well.  But if I then told another lie after that 15 years, the guilt of all my former lies would come back on me.  The Doctrine and Covenants passage does not separate sins into categories.  It simple says "sin".  If you repeat a sin, the guilt of all your former sins returns to you.

No Commandment

LDS - It is impossible to be 100% perfect.

Gentile Joe - 1 Nephi 3:7 says, "...the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them."  This verse does not say we can accomplish half of the commandments God has given.  It does not say we should be able to accomplish 90% of God's commandments.  It says God has only given commandments that we can accomplish.

Sufficient grace

LDS - God gives us grace to follow the commandments.

Gentile Joe - Moroni 10:32 gives us an if-then statement.  We are all familiar with this if-then statement:  "If you finish all your vegetables, you can have some desert."  Moroni 10:32 is an if-then statement:  "...if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ;..."  According to this verse, God's grace is only sufficient for us if we do four things.  We must deny ourselves of ALL ungodliness.  We must love God with all our might, mind and strength.  Has anyone denied himself of all ungodliness?  Does anyone love God with all his might, mind and strength?  If we prayed for 20 minutes, could we have prayed for 25 minutes?  If we have fed the hungry, could we have done more?  According to this verse, who can really qualify for God's grace?

After all we can do

LDS - 2 Nephi 25:23 say, "...for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do."

Gentile Joe - When will you have done all that you can do so you can be saved by grace?  What if you only accomplish 98% of all you can do?  Will the 98% be close enough to all you can do?

No unclean thing

LDS - I believe forgiveness is a long process.

Gentile Joe - If a person is in the process of forsaking sin, then they haven't completely forsaken sin.  Alma 11:37 says, "And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven?  Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins."

Forsake sin

LDS - I believe repentance is a gradual process

Gentile Joe - D&C 58:42-43 implies that there are two states - repenting and forsaking sin or not repenting and not forsaking sin.  These verses say, "Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.  By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins - behold, he will confess them and forsake them."

Unholy temples

LDS - I don't believe God expects us to be perfect.

Gentile Joe - Helaman 4:24 says, "...the Spirit of the Lord doth not dwell in unholy temples."

The heart

LDS - I believe that God looks at our heart.

Gentile Joe - That is true but Jeremiah 17:9&10 states, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?  I the Lord search the heart,..."  We can often look good on the outside and have bad things in our heart.  We can smile at someone and shake their hand but hate them in our heart.  We can lust after someone in our heart even though we do not act on those thoughts.  The heart is harder to manage.

A space of time

LDS - I believe that there will be a space of time between this life and the celestial heaven where we will gain more knowledge and have time to perfect ourselves.

Gentile Joe - If we were to compare 1st grade math to calculus, we could say that 1st grade math is easier.  It takes a larger knowledge base to pass calculus.  If you were to gain 10 times your current knowledge during that space of time, you would have 10 times as many commands to obey.  The more you know, the more responsibility you have. If you can't be perfect now, it will be much harder to be perfect with more knowledge.  Spencer W. Kimball also believed that it would become harder to repent after this life.  On page 11 of the Miracles of Forgiveness, Spencer W. Kimball quoted Apostle Melvin J. Ballard. "This life is the time to repent. That is why I presume it will take a thousand years after the first resurrection until the last group will be prepared to come forth.  It will take them a thousand years to do what it would have taken but three-score and ten to accomplish in this life."

Wages and Debt

LDS - I believe it is a combination of works and faith together.

Gentile Joe - Romans 4:4&5 says, "Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.  But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,..."

Submit to God's Righteousness
LDS - I do not believe that a person can just say a sinner's prayer and then go live anyway he wants to.  How can he be saved to the Celestial heaven?
Gentile Joe - According to the book of Mormon, that person is not born again.  Mosiah 27:25-26 says, "...Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations kindreds, tongues and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters; And thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God."  Romans 10:3-4 tells us that we are to lean on the righteousness of God rather than our own righteousness.  "For they being ignorant of Gods righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."  When we become a son of God, we should have our eyes focused more on Christ and his work on the cross.  We should have less focus on our own works.

Schoolmaster

LDS - I believe we can draw closer to God by following his commandments.

Gentile Joe - The commandments can make us feel farther away from God.  As you go through the 10 commandments, you will probably find that you have broken most of them.  In Matthew 5:21&22 Jesus said, "Ye have heard that is was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgement: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."  In Matthew 5:28&29 Jesus said, "Ye have heard that is was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."  If I compare myself to somebody down the street, I might look pretty good.  When I compare myself to God's law, I look like a sinner.  Then I realize I desperately need a savior.  So the law points me to my need for Christ.  It is my schoolmaster. Galatians 3:24-25 says, "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.  But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.""

Daily Repentance
LDS - God has given us the gift of repentance.  I repent of my sins everyday as part of my forgiveness process.
Gentile Joe - In April of 1995, Richard Scott quoted Joseph Smith in General Conference.  Joseph Smith declared: “Repentance is a thing that cannot be trifled with every day.  Daily transgression and daily repentance is not … pleasing in the sight of God.”  If you had a friend that confessed he lied to you, apologized and never lied to you again, you would call him a true friend.  If you had a friend that lied everyday to your face and apologized daily, you would never call him a genuine friend.  You would probably start avoiding that so-called friend.

Ephesians 2:8&9

LDS - I still believe that we are saved by grace after all we can do.

Gentile Joe - Ephesians 2:8&9 says, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."